Where can I get faster?

#21

my point exactly

#22

This thread has been helpful I hope!! Just the discussion I was hoping for.

As for turn two lets be honest there really is no such thing at RA. Staying track left coming up the hill when you get to the rumbles on the left instead of turning to parallel those you just hold your steering and brake in a straight line, you are already pointed at the apex of three instead of the motorcycle chicane runoff area.

Tracking out for one, then driving back across the track, to then turn back across the track to set up for 3. You will get caught coming up the hill every time since you have essentially driven and extra 50 to 60 feet in the same distance. Just my .02

#23

Fair enough, Greg. You drive your line through there and I’ll drive mine. We’ll let the results speak for themselves. :wink:

As far as the “braking toward the apex” debate, I agree trail braking slows the car…

But what I am suggesting Greg NOT do is stay on the brakes as hard as he does as he heads into Turn 3.

Steve D.

PS - Braking deep into Turn 6 is fun and feels all racy, but if it increases your chances of getting squirrely as you set up for 7 (and consequently slows you down the entire back straight) it ain’t worth it.

PPS - And that’s why you should be on the gas WAAAY before the apex of Turn 7, not on the brakes at the apex. If you believe that whole slow-in, fast-out thing.

PPPS - Maybe you guys are right about test day. But I brought my car home in one piece from Nationals and got to run mid-pack. To me, that is a 100% successful club racing weekend.:slight_smile:

#24

87isMan wrote:

Greg, I love ya but you’re dreaming.

Dave and Robert, you guys are missing something re. Driving in Circles. And the reason that you are missing something is that you’re both damn fast. And when you are damn fast it’s harder to remember what it was like to suck. I remember sucking like it was yesterday. Or more correctly, last Sunday. I’m a world authority on suckage. Hell, I was so bad that when Dave did some sessions with me at RA the other month that I felt like demoting myself to HPDE1.

Those of us that suck need to spend a lot of time just “driving in circles” because we are utterly untalented, uncoordinated and, well, pathetic. Even if we are damn good looking, funny as hell, and get all the chicks.

Eventually we will have spent hundreds of days driving in circles and will gradually suck a bit less. We will suck a bit less because we gradually nibbled around the edges of our flaws. Over the course of a couple dozen track days we figured out how to get out of a corner 1mph faster, and we worked up the nerve to go into another corner 10mph faster. Not really “testing” anything really, just gradually pushing our skills envelope.

It takes a lot of track days to nibble around those edges. And even more to duplicate your best effort at that next turn, time after time.

Hard work can help make up for lack of talent. With an assload of track days we might even get some podium positions. But whether we do or not, we’ll have the most goddamn fun an American boy could possibly have.

It’s not driving in circles. It’s the untalented, well meaning goof gradually nibbling around the edges of suckage.

#25

Here is a secret.

  1. Buy a traqmate (or equivalent).
  2. Find a faster guy to drive your car
  3. See where you’re slow
  4. Try to be ‘less’ slow in those spots

wash, rinse, repeat.

#26

[quote]
Not really “testing” anything really, just gradually pushing our skills envelope.[/quote]
Thats the same thing I’m talking about. In my experience, early on you pick up a few seconds every time, then tenths, until you start to plateau so that your times just depend on car setup and track conditions. “Testing” to me is an opportunity to try out some things on the car but its mostly practice for me to sharpen and develop driver skills.
By “driving in circles” we mean driving below your capabilities as a driver, not neccessarily the capabilities of the car. The idea is that the car behaves differently at 9 tenths than it does at 10 tenths. If the driver is capable, there is no point in driving a car below the limit since you are not experiencing the same things that you will at the limit.
And I’ve got a long way to go before I belong in the same sentence as dave. :slight_smile:

[quote]Here is a secret.

  1. Buy a traqmate (or equivalent).
  2. Find a faster guy to drive your car
  3. See where you’re slow
  4. Try to be ‘less’ slow in those spots

wash, rinse, repeat. [/quote]

This is the truth. Cobetto was nice enough to drive my car and skeen was nice enough to share his data with me. I cant tell you how much I have learned from studying data.

#27

allenr wrote:

[quote][quote]
Not really “testing” anything really, just gradually pushing our skills envelope.[/quote]
Thats the same thing I’m talking about. In my experience, early on you pick up a few seconds every time, then tenths, until you start to plateau so that your times just depend on car setup and track conditions. “Testing” to me is an opportunity to try out some things on the car but its mostly practice for me to sharpen and develop driver skills.
By “driving in circles” we mean driving below your capabilities as a driver, not neccessarily the capabilities of the car. The idea is that the car behaves differently at 9 tenths than it does at 10 tenths. If the driver is capable, there is no point in driving a car below the limit since you are not experiencing the same things that you will at the limit.
And I’ve got a long way to go before I belong in the same sentence as dave. :slight_smile:

[quote]Here is a secret.

  1. Buy a traqmate (or equivalent).
  2. Find a faster guy to drive your car
  3. See where you’re slow
  4. Try to be ‘less’ slow in those spots

wash, rinse, repeat. [/quote]

This is the truth. Cobetto was nice enough to drive my car and skeen was nice enough to share his data with me. I cant tell you how much I have learned from studying data.[/quote]

Roger, it sounds like we’re talking about the same thing. I retract my disagreement. Driving around the track at 8/10ths is an expensive waste of time.

Greg, I use a Traqmate too. I’d be embarrassed to fess up to how many hours I’ve spent studying other folks data. It has been tremendously useful.

Re. Robert and Dave being in the same sentance. Well, maybe when one is criticizing folks it’s best to be precise, but some ambiguity with accolades is ok.

Robert when I first saw you (CMP) my reaction was “Who’s the kid hanging around with us?” Then I saw the qual sheets and there was some guy named Robert Allen that was apparently fast as hell. So then I thought “Damn I wonder who this Robert Allen guy is? I never heard of him, but Christ he’s fast”. Later I saw you getting into the mystery Allen car. That’s when I realized “Jesus, it’s the goddamn kid that is so damn fast, that’s fudging incredible”.

#28

:blush: :blush: :blush: racing kids are supposed to be fast… and reckless :huh:

Scott when I first saw you (roebling) my reaction was, “so thats the nut that did a flyby on the tower?” :laugh:

#29

allenr wrote:

:blush: :blush: :blush: racing kids are supposed to be fast… and reckless :huh:

Scott when I first saw you (roebling) my reaction was, “so thats the nut that did a flyby on the tower?” :laugh:[/quote]

Ouch. 9mph of reckless fury baby.

#30

Great thread… my wife’s like, “what the hell are you doin’ over there,” as I stare at newly discovered videos for hours, every night, all week long.

I’ve only driven RA two weekends now, but I LOVE this track… I know I need to overcome my fears about carrying more speed into both 12 and 1, but just can’t wait to get back to it.

Watchin’ all these videos makes me think I need to get a video camera and mount so I can look over my own shoulder… don’t mean to hijack the thread, but where do you get a good deal on a camera and mount? Or should I skip the video and get a traqmate?

#31

Gilles wrote:

[quote]Great thread… my wife’s like, “what the hell are you doin’ over there,” as I stare at newly discovered videos for hours, every night, all week long.

I’ve only driven RA two weekends now, but I LOVE this track… I know I need to overcome my fears about carrying more speed into both 12 and 1, but just can’t wait to get back to it.

Watchin’ all these videos makes me think I need to get a video camera and mount so I can look over my own shoulder… don’t mean to hijack the thread, but where do you get a good deal on a camera and mount? Or should I skip the video and get a traqmate?[/quote]

Don’t go nuts on a video camera. I have a 3 year old Panasonic quality is good when I view at home. Uploaded video is a little grainy.

get this camera mount

http://www.ioportracing.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=CM&Category_Code=IOPP

I find places where I can pick up time every time I watch my videos, but like the info shared in this thread going out and doing it is always a bit difficult.

Are you going to RA in Dec.?

BTW thanks again everyone for your responses

#32

I won’t be at RA in December. My weekends are all booked… I’m kind of feeling like Helio in dancin w/stars… wife, kids, and I are in a X-mas production at the Kudzu Playhouse; I keep telling 'em, “I’m not an actor, I’m a racecar driver,” but no one’s buying it.
In the words of the Gubernator, “I’ll be back.”