Splitters - Rule Change Proposal


#41

Well, theoretically this situation shouldn’t happen. If your car is fairly balanced under acceleration in slow and moderate turns, in fast turns one would expect a bit of oversteer, not understeer.

In slow to moderate turns weight transfers to the rear under acceleration. This adds to rear grip and reduces front grip…classic understeer. Exception: Oversteer can be an issue in very slow turns tho because the high acceleration rate puts high demands on the rear traction budget.

When accelerating in fast turns, however, there’s almost no weight xfer because there’s almost no acceleration. And there’s the additional factor of rear lift because of the low pressure zone over our back deck. The sum of those variables is a light rear end. Therefore a car that is balanced in slow to moderate turns should tend to oversteer in fast turns. The trick, of course, is to create handling that is a good compromise between a bit of understeer in slow to moderate turns and a bit of oversteer in fast turns.

Theoretically, the only time one would want to add front downforce to our cars is it understeers in fast sweepers. But if the car understeers under conditions when the opposite should be true, than something odd is going on.

When I was testing my lip it felt to me that the car was more “planted in fast sweepers”. “Cool”, I thought, “the lip and undertray are working”. Then I start looking at my data and decided that it’s really hard to be objective. The data didn’t show the advantage that I thought I felt.


#42

We are allowed to tune tire pressures, rear sway bars, alignment, spacers, etc. These are race cars and setup is part of the game. A front splitter may work for some and be worthwhile, while being useless or too much of a pain for someone else. Just because someone says that “x” suspension setup is what should work, it doesn’t mean that it is the only option for every driver for every track. Hell, the CA guys showed that a convertible could clearly be competitive in SE30. There’s nothing wrong with letting people try out every legal option and get creative. If a splitter doesn’t work, let us flounder around until we realize it and enjoy the fact that you’re not having to mess with it.
That said, I don’t really care if the splitters are made illegal, but the above is just my opinion.


#43

[quote=“Ranger” post=59814]Well, theoretically this situation shouldn’t happen.[/quote]You’re right. What I have experienced could not have happened. It’s a good thing I don’t realize how slow I actually am. :woohoo:


#44

I recently added a front splitter and while my testing isn’t extensive (only ‘tested’ at Nationals), I believe it helps a lot. Especially in braking and curing some low/high speed push.

I’ll be going to WGI in Oct. and I remember my car pushing like no tomorrow in turn 1. I’m interested in seeing how much speed I can now take with more front end grip.

I think the rule should stay, especially since it’s optional. If you don’t feel like monkeying with it, don’t build one. And if you do, have fun. I’m all for making our cars handle a little better.

Rob


#45

Leave the rules as-is. (that was a period at the end)

The rules already allow tons of differences. Tons of adjustments. Talent, skill and technique is still taking the fastest guys to the front. None of the front runners in norcal run a splitter. But let the guys that want to, do it.

If Loren had won nationals, should we out law verts?

I have run with a very cool splitter, did it help? I don’t know, but I felt cool looking at my car. Have not run one this year. What I like or think about splitters does not really matter. It is in the rules, leave it alone.

Everyone’s opinions have some validity. But if we keep debating what should come in or go out of the rules, it will get frustrating for many of the participants, and possibly we lose racers.

Enough from me, I should have stopped at “period”.:wink:


#46

[quote=“Rob in VA” post=59865]I recently added a front splitter and while my testing isn’t extensive (only ‘tested’ at Nationals), I believe it helps a lot. Especially in braking and curing some low/high speed push.

I’ll be going to WGI in Oct. and I remember my car pushing like no tomorrow in turn 1. I’m interested in seeing how much speed I can now take with more front end grip.

I think the rule should stay, especially since it’s optional. If you don’t feel like monkeying with it, don’t build one. And if you do, have fun. I’m all for making our cars handle a little better.

Rob[/quote]

By your admission you think that it helps so saying if I don’t feel like mokeying with it don’t build one doesn’t make any sense. I “have” to build one because I want to stay competitive, as will everyone else in this series. Who wouldn’t want to build one when one of the fastest guys in the series says it works. I think you have to look objectively at the effect on the series. This is a non spec part that will detract from what is great about the series. Simple cars with bolt on stuff. Do you think prospective new racers are excited about the prospect of having to build a custom splitter, what about all the existing racers who don’t have splitters. Just look at Spec Miata with their different flavor of the month exhausts. Essentially we are going to have a spec series up until we get to the front aero where we can all make our own.


#47

What are all the differences and adjustments you speak off.

[quote=“theShoe” post=59876] Talent, skill and technique is still taking the fastest guys to the front. None of the front runners in norcal run a splitter. But let the guys that want to, do it.
.[/quote]

Just because the front runners don’t run one, doesn’t mean it isn’t effective. What happens when there is one guy at the front who is winning and is running a splitter. What do you think the effect is going to be on the rest of the Norcal field?

Maybe we should outlaw Loren from driving :wink:

[quote=“theShoe” post=59876]
I have run with a very cool splitter, did it help? I don’t know, but I felt cool looking at my car. Have not run one this year. What I like or think about splitters does not really matter. It is in the rules, leave it alone.

Everyone’s opinions have some validity. But if we keep debating what should come in or go out of the rules, it will get frustrating for many of the participants, and possibly we lose racers.

Enough from me, I should have stopped at “period”.;)[/quote]

Its just a debate I don’t know why its frustrating for drivers. These kind of open rules just don’t belong in a spec series. So basically you want to keep the rule for rules stability sake, is that a correct statement? I see it as loop hole in the rules that needs to be closed to keep the integrity of a spec series. Just as many drivers could potentially leave because they don’t feel the cars are equal with all these different home built splitters. If you were starting a spec series today would you honestly allow different home built aero to be added to the car? Also I find it interesting that the only people who have argued against are the ones who have built splitters. As you have already mentioned this rule change wouldn’t even effect the majority of the racers in Norcal since they don’t run splitters, so they should be fine with it. But you don’t like the rule change because even though you ran without it you still feel the need to keep it for some reason, because it looks cool?


#48

We’re making a mountain out of a molehill. The science says it’s a bad idea. Anyone with a jig saw, drill and a sheet of plywood can make one an fasten it on in an hour.


#49

What are all the differences and adjustments you speak off.[/quote]
track width
tire pressure/shave depth/age/heat cycling
camber/toe
front bar (talk about rule loopholes!)
rear bar
rake
ballast placement

By the way, the Springfield Dyno exhaust has been the de facto spec exhaust in SM for 3-4 years.

I support a set of rules that is consistent year-to-year, closing loopholes and making clarifications as necessary but not requiring significant numbers of people to rework stuff on their cars (except the Smokey Yunick crowd).

Adjustments affecting handling should always be allowed in a spec series, IMHO.

There is way more cost, testing time, and variance in lap times due to tires (old/new/shaved/etc.) If you want to really spec the series, that’s the place to start.


#50

Now I have to schedule air tunnel time! This really sucks…


#51

[quote=“FishMan” post=59890]Now I have to schedule air tunnel time! This really sucks…[/quote]Make sure it has a gravel/grass floor surface to isolate that variable in your driving. :laugh:


#52

Noted!!! Hmmmm, do you think a splitter will work that’s about 12" off the ground? Otherwise, I’ll be lucky to keep it on the car for more than a lap or two.

Didn’t your splitter fall off or something? I’m sure it was someone else’s fault!


#53

[quote=“FishMan” post=59893]Didn’t your splitter fall off or something? I’m sure it was someone else’s fault![/quote]:laugh:
I lost it when I went off track to avoid Rob’s spin in Thursday’s qualifying race. So, yes, it was my fault. I should have t-boned him instead. :woohoo:

Maybe a splitter’s not such a great idea.:blush:

[attachment=1573]grasscatcher.jpg[/attachment]


#54

Simon, if the rules don’t change, I will sell you a pre-fabbed splitter for the cost of a nice lunch :slight_smile:


#55

[quote=“Steve D” post=59895]
I lost it when I went off track to avoid Rob’s spin in Thursday’s qualifying race. So, yes, it was my fault. I should have t-boned him instead. :woohoo:

Maybe a splitter’s not such a great idea.:blush: [/quote]

Yeah, yeah, I knew it wasn’t your fault! Anyway, thanks for the pic, but could you clean the grass off so I can copy?


#56

Thanks I’ll figure something out if they decide to keep things status quo, apparently it only takes an hour to build it :blink:, probably even less time for me to rip it off on the track.


#57

I think the one thing that we’ve learned from this thread is that we need to allow homemade rear diffusers next year to even out the extra splitter downforce. :lol:

Steve I am not familiar with this front bar loophole that you speak of.


#58

To Simon,

I did not mean to insult/offend you. I just think rule changes, to add or subtract, can go on and on.

Here is an attempt to answer your questions about my comments.

First I should not have said “tons”, clearly that indicates 1000s of adjustments and I should have said “Many” or “a lot”. Steve mentioned some of them. I am not going to reveal all my secrets but you can add to his list, items that are worth a full second on many tracks, like “brake pads”, “Wedge”, “open or LSD diff”. “AFM adjustment”, “Early vs. late model chassis”. 250k mile motor or brand spankin’ new $6000 motor. 135hp vs. 157hp… (to Turbo329is: the front bars with the same diameter have very different amounts of tension/torque, whatever you call it, from the different manufacturers) There is a lot more in the rules that effect the car but I ain’t given anything else away!

Re: Talent skill etc: I stand by my comment.

Outlawing Loren has been discussed. We are still in active negotiations. A collective bargaining agreement is being hammered out.

I do understand it’s a debate. Thats why I gave my opinion.

Cool factor: I like that all the cars are not the same color, why? cause it looks cool to see a series with different colors of the rainbow. Graphics and stripes are Cool. Big numbers are cool! Some individuality is cool. I ran in Skip Barber. If you want everything the same, that is the place to go. Now none of us want everybodies cars exactly the same. We like some uniqueness.(not sure that is a word) Wheels look different and have an effect on Brake cooling, +, +… but I run the ones I think look cool. Call me vain, egotisical whatever, sure I am. So yah the more our cars look like race cars, in my mind that is better. Frankly our cars are a brick, a toolbox, a garage door, and if somebody wants to make it a bigger garage door fine. Cool does cost though, cause when you go off you are building a new one and you might come in under weight. You are also adding weight to the worst part of the car.

Last year the Nationals winning car did not have a BadAxx splitter or the second place car. I think third place Cobetto did.

There are a lot of other issues resolved or created by splitters, but I ain’t helpin’ you all out anymore. Run them or don’t I don’t care. But I vote to keep the rule as is. And if you are going to build one make it look Cool!

Cool looking, 25 year old, toolboxes, are fun to drive and most importantly I think we have the best group of racers in Spec E30, whether NorCal, SE, MA or where ever.

I love you Man! I am gonna go drink a Bud. I am gettin’ all teary eyed…


#59

[quote=“turbo329is” post=59903]I think the one thing that we’ve learned from this thread is that we need to allow homemade rear diffusers next year to even out the extra splitter downforce. :lol:

Steve I am not familiar with this front bar loophole that you speak of.[/quote]That is why it is a loophole. :wink:

I’ll let you know when I’m going to exploit it. I’ll have 14 other copies available for sale. :smiley:


#60

Splitters sound like a big PITA, and contrary to spirit/intent of series.
Proposal 1 or 2 seems preferable to current situation.