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I don’t think those gussets on the door bars buy you much anyway. The "X" door bars do a good job of keeping the cage from effectively racking front-to-back, but triangulating the intersection of the X doesn’t really help increase their effectiveness in this regard. It would not be a big deal to omit them, in my opinion. Nice looking cage. Let me know if you succeed in getting the dash bar in without losing your defroster.
Sasha
We plan on sacrificing the defroster if we have to.
I’m doing the same cage, as is Brian.
JP
Since I will be next into the cage builder, I am interested in the ruling on the gussets as well.
Im pretty sure we will end up losing the defroster anyway…which I already do not have, so no big loss.
I believe the main point is strengthening them for a side impact, not worrying about fore/aft racking.
cheers,
bruce
Ex36 wrote:
[quote]I don’t think those gussets on the door bars buy you much anyway. The "X" door bars do a good job of keeping the cage from effectively racking front-to-back, but triangulating the intersection of the X doesn’t really help increase their effectiveness in this regard. It would not be a big deal to omit them, in my opinion. Nice looking cage. Let me know if you succeed in getting the dash bar in without losing your defroster.
Sasha[/quote]
FWIW on the defroster, when my cage went in, the builder put the crossbrace right about where the top flaps from the heater box were located. Close enough that the defroster flappers couldn’t move freely.
Since I had nothing to lose, I trimmed back enough material from the flappers so that they could still do a full range of motion from the dash lever.
Then, I tossed the "connectors" that would have snapped on going vertically towards the dash.
Lastly, I trimmed back the plastic on the backside of the defroster vents on the underside of the dash just enough until it would slide into place and the remaining plastic was basically perched directly above the crossbar.
When all was said and done, if I close the other two sliders and open the defroster slider and put the fan on 3 or 4, I get a pretty decent volume of air wafting through to the defroster vents. Basically, the path of least resistance for the airflow.
Haven’t had the opportunity for any foul weather driving this year, but I have to believe it’s much better than nothing.
Having the defroster is a good thing, that’s for sure. However, if you don’t have it, buy a bottle of Fog X and take it to the track every race weekend.
I’ve also heard that rubbing a bar of soap on the interior of a dry windshield works. It’s probably not the preferred method but it’s better than not racing.
It’s still amazes me when a pro team with a multi-million dollar budget has interior fogging problems.
Carter
I plan to try to route the air from the vents up to the windshield some how. But I feel that the front dash bar is critical when it comes to safety.
Which BTW is why I like the idea of having the gussets… side impact protection.
Igor wrote:
[quote]Update: Based on the comments from previous posts I contacted my regional Spec E30 dir (who in turn also contacted NASA tech for the region) and I got a ruling regarding my cage legality:
There is nothing wrong with the downtubes on my cage, however the welded in bar from one shock tower to the other was deemed illegal.
I have to cut it out and can use bolt-in tower brace if I want to.
Regards,
Igor[/quote]
Igor,
I would not be too worried about a cross member there for performance reasons, an E30 without coilovers will not benefit from it. I would think the cross member would be for cage integrity more than anything else, any cage deformation during an impact is a bad thing.
We are doing different door X’s at this point. Instead of the typical diagonal and 2 piece cross diagonal welded together we are doing a double V design. One is right side up, the other upside down and then they are welded together via clambshell gussets. I think this is a stronger design and it spreads the weaker spot, the joint of those tubes, across a larger area. We are keeping the full window hardware in the door so we cannot bend outward towards the door at all. Plus I’m not a fan of NASCAR style bars anyway.
Cheers.
Hey all,
I’m thinking about having a 4pt rear ‘half cage’ welded in so that i can do time trials, but still daily drive it a bit. Then in probably a year or so when it turns into a ‘real’ race car i can add the front half.
I have a few questions about the rear down bars. As i understand it, it is fine for them to go down to the trunk above the spring perches right? Is it ok to have an X or a diagnal across these bars? Is this what i want to do and not worry about the shock towers? i know the shock towers can not be connected via welds…
Also how come is sometimes see these bars passing through the rear ‘firewall’ of a fixed rear seat car and sometimes this wall is taken out? Is there a preference or legality to this?
Any other tips or tricks?
Thanks a lot.
downbars to the spring perches is ok and suggested by many due to the loads involved there.
X or diagonal is fine.
presence of a panel separating the trunk from the psgr compartment is often specified in the rules of a series. Usually a series that allows a trunk mounted fuel cell requires a physical barrier between that and the driver.
cheers,
bruce
Carter wrote:
[quote]Having the defroster is a good thing, that’s for sure. However, if you don’t have it, buy a bottle of Fog X and take it to the track every race weekend.
I’ve also heard that rubbing a bar of soap on the interior of a dry windshield works. It’s probably not the preferred method but it’s better than not racing.
It’s still amazes me when a pro team with a multi-million dollar budget has interior fogging problems.
Carter[/quote]
W/out the A/C compressor, the defroster isn’t much use anyway. Forget FogX, the trick is Dish Soap. That’s what most of the Grand-Am teams were using when I was helping in that venue. I’ve used it for years on my 911 and 944 and it works great. Just put some liquid dish soap on a DRY paper towel and wipe onto the windshield. You kind of buff it so that it’s not hazy. It works great. Haven’t had a defroster and haven’t had a fogging problem since. Tried FogX once at VIR, didn’t work for beans.
Interesting…because FogX worked great for me at VIR a couple of years ago.
With dishsoap, the surfactant makes the water droplets on the glass lay down, thus the clear view. I’ll add a bottle to my track box.
Carter
Carter wrote:
[quote]Interesting…because FogX worked great for me at VIR a couple of years ago.
With dishsoap, the surfactant makes the water droplets on the glass lay down, thus the clear view. I’ll add a bottle to my track box.
Carter[/quote]
Interesting science. Since I always travel in the RV, I always have dish soap 