New Horsepower/Torque Curve Shape Rules


#21

[quote]
How do you define “match?” The shape of the line/curve could be identical while have absolute values that are greater than those shown on the representative curve.[/quote]

Well, umm, no they couldn’t. HP = (TQ * RPM)/5280. So a torque curve that is consistently higher than stock, matches the shape of the stock curve, and reaches a peak torque that is 7-10% higher than “average”, will also generate 7-10% more HP. You can only bump the peak torque and keep the HP down by changing the shape of the curve. Course who’s to say what kind of template will be used to judge a “match”.


#22

The rules sounds about right after having Fish build me a legal motor and dynoing it on a Dynojet.


#23

Finally, a Dynojet data point :slight_smile:
Chris, mind sharing where your dyno numbers shook out? Thanks!
-Vic


#24

Old original motor that came in my car. Ran it till I overheated it and hurt a couple of the cylinders:

I don’t think I have the dyno from my new engine uploaded, but I can upload it tonight. The advantage of Dynojets is that you can get the actual dyno run files and plot them in their free software.


#25

Awesome. Thanks!
-Vic


#26

Its in the appendix in the new rules.

IIRC.


#27

I’m happy about it. The whole point of this series is cheap and equal. 170+ whp E30s aren’t cheap or equal.


#28

[quote=“victorhall” post=73464]Finally, a Dynojet data point :slight_smile:
Chris, mind sharing where your dyno numbers shook out? Thanks!
-Vic[/quote]

Sorry it took an extra night. Here are my dyno plots:

Old Motor (original motor that came in my E30 with 180,000 miles before odometer died):

New Motor (built by Fish):

Comparison:


#29

Well it looks like torque numbers aren’t an issue. Please excuse me while I go build a torque monster motor with only 155 peak HP.

If peak torque numbers aren’t addressed this HP rule will be useless.


#30

Your engine is running too lean. Something is wrong with engine management. Compare the A/F to the plot below. I don’t know what the best acheivable A/F for us looks like but I can give a ballpark. Stating the obvious, it’s hard to control our A/F, but I think the objective should be to spend as much time around 13 as possible. The engine will always go rich between 4500 and 5200 because, so the unconfirmed lore goes, the DME is dialing back timing to avoid engine knock.

The engine in my dyno chart below was a fresh build by Chuck Baader. New .020 over pistons, new cam, and new spark plugs. With my old engine management parts we got a little over 150hp. By replacing a lot of engine management parts we got to the below chart as our best of the day of prob 15runs. Only later did I understand that long term fuel trim will defeat this idea of swapping out parts and comparing dyno runs.

I ran this engine starting Aug10 until I came home with my two Metric Mechanic bottom ends 5 months later. Altho the MM bottom ends were not .020 over I was curious as to how they would do (and bored) so I pulled Chuck’s motor and replaced it with an MM motor. Chuck’s bottom end is now a spare.

If I was still obsessed with engine performance I’d try to find a way to get the mixture a bit more rich in the upper rpm. I have an A/F meter on my dash and this is a comfort. I check it every once and now while on the track to make sure that nothing is crazy.


#31

[quote=“Ranger” post=73510]Your engine is running too lean. Something is wrong with engine management. Compare the A/F to the plot below. I don’t know what the best acheivable A/F for us looks like but I can give a ballpark. Stating the obvious, it’s hard to control our A/F, but I think the objective should be to spend as much time around 13 as possible. The engine will always go rich between 4500 and 5200 because, so the unconfirmed lore goes, the DME is dialing back timing to avoid engine knock.

The engine in my dyno chart below was a fresh build by Chuck Baader. New .020 over pistons, new cam, and new spark plugs. With my old engine management parts we got a little over 150hp. By replacing a lot of engine management parts we got to the below chart as our best of the day of prob 15runs. Only later did I understand that long term fuel trim will defeat this idea of swapping out parts and comparing dyno runs.

I ran this engine starting Aug10 until I came home with my two Metric Mechanic bottom ends 5 months later. Altho the MM bottom ends were not .020 over I was curious as to how they would do (and bored) so I pulled Chuck’s motor and replaced it with an MM motor. Chuck’s bottom end is now a spare.

If I was still obsessed with engine performance I’d try to find a way to get the mixture a bit more rich in the upper rpm. I have an A/F meter on my dash and this is a comfort. I check it every once and now while on the track to make sure that nothing is crazy.[/quote]

There was no Air Fuel hookup for my new engine run. That is why it is so flat and at 14.7:1. Theoretically we should want our AFR to be 13:1 the entire time, but the fact that we can’t tune our ECUs, it is doubtful anyone will achieve that. I have not changed out any sensor on my motor ever. I am using all the original sensors that came on my original motor, and that is probably why the two plots line up so closely minus the hp/torque delta of all the new parts in the engine.


#32

Getting engine management cooperating as best it can is very important. Dyno runs w/o A/F info are ok if the result is terrific. But if the result is less than terrific one is left wondering how much A/F is contributing to the problem.


#33

And another data point. 1987 'is bone stock. Injectors cleaned and flowed. Newish plugs, new wires, cap, & rotors.

[attachment=1981]E30Aug2013.jpg[/attachment]


#34

RRhodes, the HP and TQ scales don’t match.


#35

Sorry I don’t follow. TQ scale is on the left edge of the graph, HP is on the right.


#36

The scale should be the same left and right. Otherwise the shape of the curve isn’t accurately reflected.


#37

Rescaled…

[attachment=1982]E30Aug13.jpg[/attachment]


#38

That matches up pretty well to my original iS engine, although I still haven’t ever had my injectors cleaned. :frowning: