Need abs sensors

#21

[quote=“jlucas” post=70813]Parking lights & fuel gauges are not a potential performance enhancements. Older ABS systems are far from ideal in dry conditions and a skilled driver can outbrake ABS especially when a stop to zero is not required.
[/quote]
There’s been lots of debates re. outbraking ABS in various forums. Driver’s with degrees in sociology, PE or women’s studies say they can outbrake ABS. Engineers (this would include me) say “I’m not so sure”. Engineers with a background in automotive (this would not include me), say “ABS is better.”

SCCA doesn’t allow ABS because there is consensus it’s inferior?

Of course, if I had it to all do over again, I’d have majored in women’s studies. Those of you with HS age boys, I pray you’ll counsel them to consider their [strike]long term [/strike]objectives better than I.

Talk to SpecE30 types that have dealt with inop ABS systems for a while. Ask them how many tires they ruined.

#22

YES, you can outbrake the ABS system!! Been doing it for years, but I learned to threshold brake in my teens, many, many, many, many, (you get the idea) years ago. Even in the wet!!

SCCA outlawed ABS since not all cars classified in the various classes were available with ABS. That made an even playing field for everyone. (And I’m talking Improved Touring)

Of note, NASA requires ABS to be present, but all e30 chassi did not come with ABS, and all are legal to use with the proper motor…WTF???

#23

[quote=“cwbaader” post=70823]YES, you can outbrake the ABS system!! Been doing it for years, but I learned to threshold brake in my teens, many, many, many, many, (you get the idea) years ago. Even in the wet!!

SCCA outlawed ABS since not all cars classified in the various classes were available with ABS. That made an even playing field for everyone. (And I’m talking Improved Touring)

Of note, NASA requires ABS to be present, but all e30 chassi did not come with ABS, and all are legal to use with the proper motor…WTF???[/quote]
I certainly agree that you have lots of non ABS e30 experience, but IMO there won’t ever be consensus on the issue. Both drivers and automotive engineers feel strongly that they are right. I don’t have the background to have my own opinion.

You raise an interesting point re. ABS being on the original cars. My perception is that it was an option starting in '85 or '86 and was standard in '87, but I don’t know that for sure. The key year is '87 since that’s the first year for our motor and it’s the motor that defines chassis eligibility. We’d need to find out definitively if it was standard or optional on the '87.

#24

This thread had a pdf of a roadtest done in '87. It says that the '87 had ABS standard. Not an authoritative source, but an indicator. Is interesting to read the camparo vs. other performance sedans of the day.
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6159794#post6159794

#25

Evidently you don’t know my background (ie. automotive engineer). :cheer:

Trust me you can brake better than 1980s ABS especially in a dry race environment but you can also screw it up. More than once I’ve taken comfort in the fact that a less experienced SE30 driver trying to cut inside me is supposed to have ABS. I’ve done the back to back testing in 90’s test cars and could still beat the ABS. Have not tried in something of current vintage which I would suspect to be much more difficult. I certainly know some of the braking I get away with in the T3 S2000 would never happen without ABS/EBD/etc.

As I stated before, it’s something that should be clarified in the rules.

#26

Evidently you don’t know my background (ie. automotive engineer). :cheer:

[/quote]
Evidently.

Well, that’s good to know, and your point is another good data point.

#27

So it had been my impression as well that NASA requires the ABS to be functioning on cars. I brought up the CCR and used the nifty little find tool and was not able to find anywhere in the rules ABS, anti, antilock, or anti-lock…maybe I was searching the wrong document. Not sure.

#28

You won’t find it in the CCR. Look in the Spec E30 rules.

#29

Yeah I checked there too. Where it refers to brakes, 9.3.10, it does not say anything specific about the ABS and so therefore it has to be present as previously stated. Which apparently is different than present and functioning.