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Are you kidding? Have you priced (or lifted :sick:) an OEM hardtop? The cost far exceeds what most of you cheap bastards think is reasonable for a whole donor car.
Remember? The whole argument for opening up the class to Spec3 was the dwindling supply of cheap donors. :evil:
PS - Allowing convertibles to run in Spec Miata works only because the coupe and sedan versions are so rare.[/quote]
Wait, the roof part is heavy? Can’t be.
Did they ever make a Miata wagon?
lol, it kind of looks like a Mini Countryman…with the carp face and a deer in headlights look.
Hell, lets drop 150 lbs and add coilovers and go racing with SM. Then the pro-vert guys can buy carbon fiber tops.
The simple fix to the so called shortage of cheap spec e30’s—Just allow Verts to the class…There are about 17 billion of these available & you can find build cars all day long for $200-500.
Some of you on the forum will debate the unfair advantage of the Vert until the cows come home. I’d like to know from all of you if the perception of this unfair advantage is fact or fiction? How many of you have actually ever raced a vert spec e30? How many of you have ever done a side by side or back to back test with a Vert vs sedan?
All the theory aside, the Vert has only a handful of actual advantages. 1. Easy access for building a cage. 2.Easy access for ingress/egress.3. Less surface area when you are washing your car 4. Can work on your tan while driving. Beyond that, whatever unfair advantage arguments you want to throw at me, I will call BULLSHIT cuz you don’t know because you don’t own the only legal spece30 in NASA, I do. And my experience after running an entire season of spec e30 in the most competitive region in the country suggests NO unfair advantage.
Allowing Verts to be in the class would probably provide another decade or 2 of spec e30 racing should sedan donor cars simply dry up.
After racing door to door with Charlie at Nationals, I have no issue with allowing convertibles. The “advantage” was all in the driver.
I would say the ban was most likely put in place from the perceived unfair advantage of no roof, stiffer chassis/low CG and reinforced front shock tower, rather than a safety issue, in fact, I think the Vert is actually safer in that it is easier to extract a driver. That said, driver needs to wear arm restraints.
As I have raced a Spec e30 vert with both MA and SE I guess I should comment…
The vert has a serious disadvantage on tracks with a long straight…The hardtop makes a huge difference there. Personally I think the hardtop should be illegal, it is rare and cost $$$… I “won” a race at CMP…it was really handed to me but anyway it is a handling track where tires mean everything and HP does not matter much…I really had a 3rd or 4th place car, not on fresh tires, etc…
I really do not think the vert has any real advantage, maybe a car built to the limit with a really good driver on a really short course…definitely not at RA where the nationals are for us this year. I like running my car without the hardtop…it feels “vintage” and I am tall and it is really easy to get in and out.
Thanks
Al
I guess I failed to mention the additional advantage for TALL drivers.
Prior to my purchasing the TFB Vert, the boys did experiment with a semi-custom rag top on the vert. It did seem like it might have helped top speed, maybe 1mph.
Speaking of TFB - how is there driver after last weekend? I saw that video, and couldn’t help but wince when the RX7 got hit. Wasn’t able to attend the 25 this year (team backed out) but several friends were down there running.
I could see the vert being helpful for tall people - I am 6’1" and with the adjusters on my seat, I am usually fairly close to the roof/cage bars…
I could see the vert being helpful for tall people - I am 6’1" and with the adjusters on my seat, I am usually fairly close to the roof/cage bars…[/quote]
If you don’t have 4-5" clearance over your head, you’re doing it wrong. I’m 6’, 270 and had tons of room over my head.
Both drivers involved in the crash are fortunately ok. The impact was basically at full tilt & both drivers are very lucky to not have been injured. Fellow Norcal spec e30 driver, Dan Riley was driving the rx7 and Darrin Posely, a Norcal spec miata hot shoe was driving the TFB Monster 1 car. I was out on track at the same time driving the new TFB creation and actually narrowly missed Dan (I was about the 6th car through the mess) prior to Darrins impact. Dan’s sitting duck position on track was a very dangerous place to be, however, he was only put there because the dumbass in the Porsche put him there by hitting him on entry to turn 8. What most people don’t realize is that this incident was on a restart. Hopefully, Dan is not too shaken up by the incident & will join us again for another season of spec e30.
steve, all your other opinions are lost on us ;-), once you claimed your region was the most competitive in the country, we all assumed the rest of your post was in jest as well…I thought everyone agreed the mid-atlantic region was the most competitive in the country.
all kidding aside, not that anyone cares what my opinion is but I say no to the spec 3 cars, that are not as developed as the e30s, so it is to hard to balance the two classes, and I say no to the convertible, once your in the draft that convertible top doesn’t matter and the rest of the benefits are an advantage.
[quote=“Steve Ferrario” post=75127]The simple fix to the so called shortage of cheap spec e30’s—Just allow Verts to the class…There are about 17 billion of these available & you can find build cars all day long for $200-500.
Some of you on the forum will debate the unfair advantage of the Vert until the cows come home. I’d like to know from all of you if the perception of this unfair advantage is fact or fiction? How many of you have actually ever raced a vert spec e30? How many of you have ever done a side by side or back to back test with a Vert vs sedan?
All the theory aside, the Vert has only a handful of actual advantages. 1. Easy access for building a cage. 2.Easy access for ingress/egress.3. Less surface area when you are washing your car 4. Can work on your tan while driving. Beyond that, whatever unfair advantage arguments you want to throw at me, I will call BULLSHIT cuz you don’t know because you don’t own the only legal spece30 in NASA, I do. And my experience after running an entire season of spec e30 in the most competitive region in the country suggests NO unfair advantage.
Allowing Verts to be in the class would probably provide another decade or 2 of spec e30 racing should sedan donor cars simply dry up.[/quote]
My 2 cents.
I’ve driven both a SpecE30 and a Spec3 on track. They have nothing in common other than the roundels on the hood and trunk. The E36 has a superior rear suspension, engine, and brakes. They inherently have so much more potential and I think are easier to drive near the limit. Regardless, E30s are my preferred steed and the reason why I built a SpecE30. I have no desire to build a Spec3. Not to mention their rule set is awful.
I have to agree with others in that it will be extremely hard to balance the two in a manner that everyone will agree is fair. However, more than anything, to me it’s the character of racing in a one model spec series that I don’t want to lose. Put Spec3s into the mix and a bit SpecE30’s soul dies.
I’d support bringing verts back into SpecE30. If people are so sure they have a performance advantage then propose ways to negate that purported advantage. Add a weight penalty. Allow lexan side and rear windows in hard tops (a la PRO3). Allow vert reinforcements to be added to non-verts. There’s got to be way to do it that is much less disruptive to SpecE30 than merging in Spec3s and balancing those two vastly different chassis.
All things can be fixed with enough weight
add 150lbs to convertibles and my objections go away
as for spec 3, add 250 lbs and I won’t care, they’ll be far enough behind us it won’t matter.
I have a brilliant plan to dominate spec e30 next year, spec 3 convertible!!!..the next step to domination of spec e30…I think I just threw up a little in my mouth.
Harper,
Is that extra 150# convertible weight penalty a “pull it out ones ass #”? How is it that you come up with this weight penalty if Verts were to be reintroduced to the series? Where is the data that supports the so called unfair advantage? How about you bring your car out to California & we conduct a scientific side by side test once the other variables like horsepower & equivalent setup are maximized? Hell, you can even drive my vert for the day…Do make sure to bring sunscreen though.
Compared to what? :evil:
Part of my point being there are so few, and second, they are still infants when it comes to a competitive/developed class.[/quote]
You’re definitely right, Jeremy. I haven’t read through all of this so forgive me if I’m repeating someone but right now a front running MA SE30 and a winning S3 are about 2.5 seconds apart at VIR. A little less at a track like Summit Point. But to your point, no one in S3 has a built motor yet. I believe they have the same motor build rules we do but no one has done a full build - a NE builder claims if he build one to max spec he could get close to 200hp at the wheels. That’s like 245 in west coast HP.
Anyways, the cars are ~2.5 seconds apart right now and as soon as someone in S3 builds a motor that delta is going to spike. And as we know from the old SE30, building motors is like playing dominoes.
