It's alive!!! But...

#21

I have some injectors that I just got cleaned and flowed. I could overnight them if you need a backup plan.

I was struggling with a starting problem a while back and spent a couple nights trying to confirm that my injectors were doing what they should. I found some odd behavior with voltages and with the little doohickeys that you can plug into your injector wire ports to confirm that they were getting pulses.

In the end the only way I could ensure for absolute sure that the injectors were firing was to put pull out the rail and watch the injectors spurt.

In the end my problem was not injector related. The odd test results I was getting were just a red herring.

#22

Thanks for the offer Scott. Let me see how things play out tomorrow/Monday.

I thinking I’m going to get one of the first 2 injector models from Five0

http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/product-search/?v=20456

The only thing that sucks is next day shipping from California.

What’s the flow rating of stock injectors?

Is there a performance difference between Bosch and Borg Warner?

#23

I had my injectors serviced by Cruzin Performance, and according to their data sheet the post-ervice pulsed flow is 84ml/120 sec, and static flow of 91 ml/30 sec. Not sure why they chose those parameters but that’s at least one datapoint. Didn’t get much info from Bentley, but I’ll keep digging around. Glad it’s an injector problem and not a wiring issue…

#24

I found Static Flow Rate of 170 cc/min in the Factory Manual.

The BWDs from O’Reiley are some aftermarket mfg, SMP. Not sure what they’re flow rated at.

The injectors from Five0 are less than the 170 cc/min, I think 14.9 lb/hr(156 cc/min).

After what I’ve been through I’m a little gun shy about used/rebuilt injectors. But new Bosch injectors seem to run ~$50+ ea.

The Static Flow Rate of your injectjors is 182 cc/min, nice.

#25

RMEuropean has them for $63, BavAuto for $57, both OEM bosch…don’t know about shipping, though but at least they will be the correct flow rate.

#26

AutohausAZ has them for $52/ea but next day shipping is $52!

Found some ebay ads for sets of remans less than $90. They’re located in Florida. If I can get them to ship next day, I think I’ll go for them just to make it to the track this week.

#27

WTF!!!

Just installed “new” set of reconditioned injectors I got from Florida in the inverted Fuel Rail. The idea was to test them for functionality before installing in the intake manifold.

I had trouble getting #1 to spray (on a towel). Since it was the highest one, I decided to stick a pice of wood under the rail to make it lower (move the air bubble in the fuel rail).

I lean back in the car and crank some more and the next thing I know, the effin’ towel is in fire! I grabbed the towel and threw it in the yard and stomped it a few times. When I turn around, there’s fire still burning in the engine bay! Fortunately a good huff of wind blew it out(big candle). The only real harm I see done is that one of the new injector tips is burned up pretty good. The fire under the hood was just burning on gas (exept the injector tip).

What I don’t understand is where the fire came from. I had no plugs in the head and the coil was disconnected from the wire set.

Did the spark come from one of the injectors? This is out of hand! Again, WTF!!!

KB

PS - did I mention electricity is not my friend?

#28

While I sit here and gather my wits and courage back up there’s something about the way the new injectors started to spray.

Like with the old ones, only #'s 2, 4 & 5 sprayed initially. Further cranking produced fuel from #'s 3 & 6. I figured it’s due to air in the fuel rail. That’s why I blocked #6 up higher to move the air at the feed to #1.

I’m wondering now if I don’t have a problem with the fuel rail. Before I installed it last summer I’m pretty sure I flushed it out with carb cleaner. Could I have debris or rust in the fuel rail?

The fuel system has a new filter and hoses feeding to the rail.

#29

Whatever the problem is, I don’t buy this air in the fuel rail idea. My fuel rail has been opened up for days every time I swapped a motor…and what’s that been now, 12 times? Any air that might have been in the fuel rail would be quickly pushed out thru an injector.

Injector’s aren’t very tolerant of debris, but if you cleaned out the rail it should be clean. The place to worry about debris in the fuel system is rust in your gas tank.

#30

New gas tank

#31

rrroadster wrote:

Then quit worrying about debris.

#32

The fact that the injectors initially squirted in the same fashion (2,4, 5) as the old ones means something. You might call it duplicating a failure mode. 3 & 6 didn’t squirt until I cranked a little more and I don’t think their streams were as strong as the first 3. #1 never would squirt.

I also think the fuel color coming out is a little too reddish (can you say rust? or dead bugs/mud?)

The fuel rail is steel. Who knows how long it sat empty? When I removed the first set of injectors tonite some of the fuel rail ports poured gas freely, while others didn’t leak a drop. I wasn’t astute enough to pay attention as to which did what, but I’m willing to bet 2, 4, 5 poured out gas while the others did not.

Aside from the hardlines running under the chassis, the fuel rail is the only fuel system component I did not replace with new or get cleaned. Apparently I did not flush it out as well as I thought before installation (if at all :(). Betcha I ruined a fresh set of injectors tonite as well.

I think the fuel rail has a significant amount of rust or other debris in it. The reason I could never get #1 to squirt is because the bulk of the rust got pushed down to the exit end the fuel rail blocking #1 really good. The fuel injector issues were the end result of another problem - a partially clogged fuel rail. Now I can’t be mad at the guy who cleaned the original set for me. :slight_smile:

I’m going to try to find somebody local tomorrow to tank the fuel rail and reclean the injectors.

#33

WooHoo!!!

I remembered I had a spare fuel rail. Cleaned it and the fresh injectors real good with carb cleaner.

Unhooked the power wires from the coil. :wink:

Had some help tonite so just hooked up the injector wiring plugs one at a time and stuck the injector tip in a Gator Ade bottle. All injectors fired the same!

Put 'em in the intake manifold and hooked up the fuel rail. Hartman the Spec E30 lives!

Took it around for a ride in the neighborhood with a 1000 candle power spot light for illumination. :slight_smile: Seems to run ok.

I may show up a day late for VIR, but at least I’m gonna make it.

The fuel rail I removed did not have any rust in it. It did have a lot of varnish though.

#34

wtg man. Good job persisting to fight until you were able to figure out the problem.

#35

Congrats man. I love reading about success. I got to drive mine for the first time in 2 weeks today as well. My luck wasn’t as good as yours today, however.

#36

Thanks guys. Gonna bust ass today and tonite to wrap it up good enough to be HPDE worthy. Breaking the motor in during PCA’s Black Group with the GT3’s should be interesting (only group open for registration). I hope to make it to VIR by 6:00 tomorrow morning.